Dutchess County/Putnam County AT Management Committee

Attendance: Ron Rosen (Chair), Salley Decker, Jane Geisler, Michelle Miller (ATC), Keith Jordy (Troop 40 BSA Eagle Candidate), George Jordy (Troop 40 BSA +Asst. SM), Pete Irvine (NPS Park Office/USFS), Jim Haggett, Mike Arthur, Fred Gerty, Sarah Ohliger (Americorps/Dutchess Land Conservancy), Frank Dogil, Pete Senterman, Alyssa Silberstein (Americorps/Public Lands Corps), Sanne Larsen (15). Attendees introduced themselves since there were a number of new faces.

0. The following items circulated in the "For Your Action" (FYA) packet: Hike Leaders wanted for ATC 2001 Biennial , July 14-20, 2001; NPS/AT Recognition program: any 25 and/or 50 year volunteers to nominate? [Due 4/15/2001]; Any interest in attending ATC Education and Interpretation Planning Workshop June 8-10 Wva?; Please review latest revision of our meeting mailing list (US Mail version) and ATC Regional Directory.

The following items circulated in the "For Your Information" (FYI) packet: ATC Contract for Brown, Baker, Depot Hill, and RPH Garage ready for signing by Colbert Construction of Holmes; NPS Press Release concerning Hosner Mountain incursion settlement; AMC/CT Trails Committee minutes 2/6/01; Trails Council agenda 2/1/2001; ORATMC agenda 3/8/2001 and 10/19/2000 minutes; Poughkeepsie Journal article on Hosner Mountain Incursion settlement (2/13/01 page 1B); Letter to Beekman Supervisor McKee nominating Gerry Richardson as Beekman Town Rep. To DPATMC.; Letter to Fiberlux/Tredegar requesting annual inspections of the plant by DPATMC ...and Fiberlux response to us 3/1/2001;

YRDC Training Advisor Position announcement; Dutchess County Planning Federation newsletter; Nature Conservancy Resource Guide for Wetlands Protection (Great Swamp); Letter from Bob Gray to Rosas (Monte Rosa lodge in Eas Fishkill) concerning posting and/or hunting on NPS lands; Pam Underhill letter announcing Finding of No Significant Impact (FONSI) for Saddleback Acquisition settlement; Neil Zimmermans draft description of a backpack on the AT from Route 52 to Route 22; Draft minutes of Mid-Atlantic ATC meeting, October 21, 2000; Regional Plan Associations Regional Assembly, 4/27/2001 NYC; Notes from Walt Daniels on Small Press Fair Exhibit and Litter Day (5/6); Harlem Valley Partnership newsletter; NPS Rivers and Trails Program 2000 results brochure; ATC Education Survey; Notebook with results from last years Recreation Survey on the trail.

1. The minutes of the 160th meeting, January 22, 2001, were accepted as written.

Mike Arthur:Telephone Pioneer Shelter: add overflow tent sites, rebuild/replace fireplace, relo privy (some or all)

Assist Jane Geisler with small relo in former field near Hoyt Rd.

Depending on timing (probably not available before mid-summer): Graymoor relo.with Walt Daniels.

Jim Haggett suggested one or both of two small relocations: Route 55 relo; blue [parking] side trail relo.

2. Meeting Centerpiece: Water Systems with NPS [USFS]/ATC

Pete Irvine opened with an introduction to Nuclear Lake, apologizing for Pam Underhill and Rita Hennessey being unable to join us tonight due to extenuating circumstances. Pete noted that there are over 600 Water SOURCES on the AT, but there are about a dozen water SYSTEMS trailwide, and we have five of them in our area [one is Nuclear Lakes Caretaker House system]. The Public Health Service recommends a drilled well at Nuclear Lake, but the decision to proceed awaits our larger discussion of Nuclear Lake.

Pete outlined the history of the present situation. The wells were either inherited or drilled in "simpler" times. The passage of the Clean Drinking Water Act forced NPS to review their water supply systems, which are defined as water coming from essentially manmade structures, primarily [in our area] wells with hand pumps. Recommendations have come through [now Captain] John Hanley, now head of the NPS water system support at the Public Health Service. The rules and regulations have been a moving target, so development decisions made a few years ago in good faith have resulted in wells that do not meet current specifications. Most recently, field visits were made in the Spring of 1999, which resulted in a number of recommendations. Pete reviewed the current NPS "default" water system requirements, and he indicated that the NPS Public Health Consultant can adapt the minimum regulations on a site-specific basis, given an appropriate rationale. Dr. Durrett (the current Public Health Consultant) and Capt. Hanley have said a waiver or adaptation would need AT A MINIMUM 6 monthly good bacteriological tests.

Michele asked Pete to confirm the likelihood that PHS will remain consistent on its current recommendations. Pete indicated that the regulations are pretty stable now, and that some of the requirements for water systems could be implemented via park-wide adjustments. For example, the certified operator requirement might be handled by having a single person designated for the entire AT, perhaps an NPS or ATC staff person. Michele Miller noted that Wiley Shelter well has had a waiver (at one time), and that no other system has had a waiver.

Mike Arthur asked what will happen if we dont get six consecutive clean readings. Michele noted we hope to have six months clean, and in fact for three wells we now have two consecutive months clean. If we get a positive reading, we have to resample right away, and there is a procedure for handling the failures on resample (pull the system head and super-chlorinate). Fred noted that the specifications are designed for a developed park system, and really dont fit here. We need a protocol that works for a linear trail environment with most users reasonably well educated about water treatment. Fred noted the alternative [to not using the wells] are fairly lousy water sources (swamps, etc.).

NPS does not presently have the discretion to define pumps or pipes as water sources instead of supplies [location of the well is NOT a consideration]. Ron mentioned that it might be useful as a long-term strategy to press for an amendment to the Clean Water Act to exempt backcountry facilities from the Water System definition.

Jane Geisler asked if it would be sufficient to meet Dutchess County Health Department regulations. Pete responded that the NPS has to meet the most stringent of the applicable rules, due to the Directors Order.

Sarah Ohliger indicated that her tenure would allow for monthly sampling through October, but her schedule does not make her available to handle failures. It was agreed that, in the short term, Sara can do the monthly testing. It was suggested that her sampling protocol be modified to include blow-torching the nozzles to remove any surface contamination prior to taking the samples.

A discussion ensued on the possibility that we would try to keep the wells open even if our testing regimen did not meet the monthly requirement and/or we continue to have intermittent positive results. Pete did not expect the situation to become that adversarial, but indicated it would probably become his responsibility to shut down wells if the PHS insisted that such a course were imperative. Right now, the PHS people are working with us, and are not requiring us to implement the full water system regulations, which include in-line continuous chlorination and daily monitoring of residual chlorine levels. The main thing we have not been able to do is to handle the positive results when they occur. We discussed at length the possible ways to improve our response to these test failures, which require rapid re-testing, and if the retest fails also, shock chlorination. We decided it would be best to develop a list of people willing to help with retests when needed, and to give each of them a small stock of test bottles. Sarah (or her successor) would have a copy of the list so that someone could be dispatched to handle the situation.

Ron mentioned that, to date, Pete and the PHS have considered these as year-round systems, and that our testing regimen did not meet the monthly testing rule especially during the winter. It was agreed that we should look at these wells as seasonal water systems, and plan to do two rounds of sampling in March in preparation for opening them each year, and then do monthly testing April through October, and close the wells down in November. This would require some method for disabling them so they could not be used during the winter. It was generally agreed that meeting this testing regimen (two tests for startup in March, then monthly, call in a "one-shot" volunteer upon test failure, etc.) would be sufficient for PHS to allow a waiver of the more stringent requirements.

Ron discussed some possible longer-term options for the future. One possibility would be to create a 10-month Americorps position for the Trail, probably including other duties than water systems. This person would be brought on board during February and work through mid-December. The annual cost to the host group [perhaps ATC or NYNJTC] would be about $5,000, and this would need to be budgeted and/or appropriate funding sources found. It was then suggested that an alternative would be to add the water testing regimens responsibilities to the job description for the Nuclear Lake caretakers position, and use the $5,000 valuation to justify part of the value received in housing the caretaker at the Nuclear Lake residence. The Committee felt this would be an attractive solution. Since we have a subcommittee charged to define a job description, this can be referred to them pending the outcome of the Nuclear Lake discussion now planned for the next (April 23^rd) meeting.

One problem that came up is that the recommendations from 1999 have not been implemented. Jim Haggett explained to Pete that we submitted a Grants-to-Clubs request for improvements to the RPH well on receiving the recommendations, and the Grants Committee of ATC determined at their meeting [in 1999 or 2000] that this project would be funded through other sources and that an ATC grant would not be needed. Unfortunately, it seems the funding never did get arranged. Also, Michele indicated that the contractor due to start this week on the demolition projects has indicated he can improve the well pad at Morgan Stewart shelter [given a small contract addendum]. Various committee members explained to Michele that we actually had a plan [from Dutchess County Health Department] for the well pad, and we would try to dig this up so Michele can give a copy to the contractor. Similar improvements could be made at Wiley and Shenandoah, perhaps using some of the volunteer groups scheduled for later this spring.

In response to a question, Pete indicated that there has been a new look taken at the larger issue of water pollution. Previously, water was considered surface water [easily polluted] or ground water [generally impervious to surface contamination]. A new classification has been added, called "Ground water under surface influence" (GWUSI) to respond to situations involving subsurface contamination due to heavy storms, no pad at well casing, etc. As a result, the strategies for obtaining and maintaining pure subsurface drinking water supplies are changing.

Action items: Sarah Ohliger will immediately start testing all four wells (her first tests excluded Messerschmitt-Shenandoah because she was led to believe the well is locked, but those present believe the well is unlocked).Ron will contact Gail Neffinger to determine the status of the "spare" pump that ORATMC theoretically has available, for possible use at the RPH site. Jim Haggett will get a copy of the RPH well improvement proposal to Pete and Michele, and they will work to arrange for funding of this project. Also, Dr. Durrett plans to make a site visit to our wells later this spring, and he may make some updated recommendations.

3. Other business, short updates, etc.:

A. Acquisitions and Survey: Jim and Ron reported that Hartmans survey field measuring is largely complete, but the monuments are not set yet. Ron expects them to be installed soon, as the contracts generally have a deadline for their installation. The Public Lands Corps team needs to know the specifics of the updated survey. In Walts absence (he had town jury duty tonight) Ron reported that the Graymoor agreement has been inked, and the 45-day public comment period is now underway. Don Owen (AT Park Office) has suggested that a FONSI is likely, given that the required field work was done during the negotiation process [cultural and natural resources, etc.]. However, the comment period for the FONSI cannot start until NPS owns the property, so Don doesnt believe we can build trail there before mid-summer.

B. DOT project update (Jim Haggett): Jim mentioned that Don Owen (and Jim) will be meeting with Lisa Weiss of DOT at the project site this coming Friday. The goal is to determine how much DOT can do towards fixing the steepness of the trail from Miller Hill Road to the toe of slope at the bottom of the hill. Jim would like to be able to have a Mitzvah Day crew work there at the end of April, perhaps having DOT provide materials such as rocks so that erosion-prevention structures can be added.

C. Bulletin Board inventory and review: Sally Decker needs an inventory with locations and the size of the covered area. Walt Daniels should be able to supply Salley with the updated inventory information. Salley will contact Walt to get the information. Ron noted there are at least two different designs that were implemented, and the inventory may or may not distinguish them. Salley will schedule a meeting with Joe Hrouda to work up specifics. She will also check on the varieties of Lexan and "hard" plexiglass available. The Lexan we used last, about 2mm thick, was very susceptible to attack, and certainly not good enough for the protection desired.

D. Cell tower issues: Jim Haggett reported on the tower proposed for the I-84 rest area below the 84-overlook field. Working with ATC and George Muller, he has developed some estimates of the towers visibility. In summary: Very visible. Don Owen is hoping to meet Friday with the Thruway authority, or at least to have a site visit, probably after his meeting with DOT (see 3B above).

E. Fiberlux expansion update: Ron noted that Fiberlux/Tredegars management have agreed to yearly inspections, and that removes our remaining objections to their proceeding with their planned expansion. We believe that the Pawling Planning board seems to be moving ahead with approval of the project. Ron noted that Mr. Benson, the reporter with the Pawling News Chronicle [Taconic Newspapers] has been following the project closely and has interviewed Ron at least twice during the last few months.

F. Outside project assistance plans. [See also IB above]. Jane Geisler discussed the planned work for Mitzvah Day, scheduled for April 29^th. The Pawling Highway Department will pickup lumber moved out from the Hiller Brook vicinity to the foundation near the tracks on Route 22. If Jim Haggett gets the OK Friday from DOT, he can field a Mitzvah Day crew at Miller Hill Road [the sponsors have been asking us to find a project near Beacon for a group they hope to recruit from that area]. As a back-up project, this crew could be used to do preparatory work on the RPH well improvements.

Other likely Mitzvah Day projects include: (1) The Nuclear Lake scrap collection for recycling--copper wire, aluminum, etc. [probably load a truck that can deliver on Monday morning; (2) Remove the Deuel Hollow Bridge brush and decking scraps [perhaps move wood to the same place as the Hiller Brook wood]; and (3) any Telephone Pioneer Shelter work that the Eagle candidate chooses not to include in his project.

Ron noted that the school group, the "Academic Community" will be available in May, later than previously anticipated. They can do any leftover projects from Janes Mitzvah Day, or otherwise perhaps install the relo near Hoyt Road. For this to happen, we will need to determine the extent of the reroute, and if it is long enough, arrange for environmental work to be done prior to the project date.

G. Special Use Permit request(s): The Committee has no concerns regarding the proposed McTigue wedding at the West Dover Oak Tree. So, this is oak-kay by us. It was suggested that he arrange for parking cars near the Cook farm buildings further north on West Dover Road.

H. YRDC plans for 2001 (Grant Approved): Alyssa stated she needs to update the maps to determine the NPS boundary to post with the hunting signs; she will arrange to get together with Ron to complete this. She asked if we still want to use the 12x12 "No Hunting" signs available at Home Depot, noting that she would have to tape over their "No Tresspassing" text. Ron will check with Bob Gray. Chris Florack (ATC Boundary Technician) is scheduled to work with her on May 3rd and 4^th. Ron suggested she try to hire her assistant by that date, so she will try to arrange to have the position advertised ASAP. She noted that at least one last section in Putnam County still needs boundary blazing. She expects the crew to start in June.

I. Dutchess County Tourism has contacted Ron, asking if we have any photos of age 25-35 hikers on the trail for a new Tourism brochure aimed at that demographic group. People who find anything should forward their photos to Ron or send them to the Tourism Promotion Agency. Sanne said she may have some. Fred suggested that we take photos while were out doing other projects, posing them as needed.

J. Scenic Hudson Great River SweepScenic Hudson said we could register our existing project [4/29 Mitzvah Day work] as a project as part of their program, helping them expand their list and getting us some additional publicity.

There was no objection. Jane will be listed as lead, and Alyssa agreed to assist.

4. Reports

A. Area Supervisors Summaries: