Dutchess County/Putnam County AT Management Committee
New York-New Jersey Trail Conference
Minutes of 174th Meeting
Wednesday, November 13, 2002 7:00 PM East Fishkill Library Alley Conference Room

Attendance: Ron Rosen, Frank Dogil, Mike Arthur, Walt Daniels, Gerry Richardson, Amanda Long (Dutchess Land Conservancy/AmericorpsB water testing person), Fred Gerty, Sabrina LaFave, Jane Geisler, Ginny Stiles, George Whetstone (> 95 thru-hiker) [11].

0. The following FYI ("for your information" ) items were circulated: AMC/CT Trails Cmte minutes. September 10, 2002 and agenda for 11/5/02; Public Notice of Lot Realignment, Shenandoah Lake Estates, Long Hill Road vicinity; Letter from Bob Gray to Trooper Langone, NY State Police [Stormville incident], Receipt from Pump Parts at Dutchess Wholesalers in Poughkeepsie [Correct parts for well leathers], Letter from Bob Gray to Pawling Fish & Game re incorrect posting on Corbin Hill; Correspondence w/ Steven Norbutt [re Morgan Stewart shelter volunteering]; 1985 Trail Walker [Wiley Shelter latrineB Dan Barbash].

The following FYA ("For Your Action") Items were circulated: Updated Trail Maintainer/Volunteer lists were distributed to Supervisors at this meeting; Letter from John Erdsneker {NYNJTC) with name of possible volunteer [for supervisors to take note].

1. The minutes of the 173rd meeting, September 19, 2002, were reviewed and approved as published.

2. Old Business, short updates, etc.:

A. Acquisitions and Survey update:

Progress Report on parcel near Nuclear Lake along Route 55 (Town of Beekman): Gerry Richardson explained that he and Mike Arthur had reviewed the parcel on-site, and concluded that it is not really useful to the AT. The "middle" of the parcel is the NYSEG Power Line ROW, and the "boundary" between the "middle" and the "north" part is a very steep cliff with no obvious route for a trail to enter the Nuclear Lake property. The "south" part near the road does not have any areas particularly suitable for a parking lot. Gerry recommended that, if we want more parking, we consider upgrading/enlarging the existing parking area.. Gerry will let the Town of Beekman know of our decision, and suggest that the Town can consider acquiring the parcel to keep the Route 55 corridor more scenic. Jane Geisler noted that Pawling has designated its portion of Route 55 a "scenic road" corridor.

B. DOT project update (Jim Haggett written report). In Jim' s absence, Ron reported that the DOT contractor considers the project as complete. Two sets of steps have been built, using landscape ties as construction materials. Unfortunately, the section from the top of the hill at the road to the first set of steps is still steeper than the desired maximum 25% grade, and we do not expect the DOT to do any further work. Ron didn' t know what material was used to resurface the trail' s treadway. If the upper portion erodes away again, we can always simply add our own steps.

C. Water Testing & Water Project Update: Ron re-introduced Amanda Long [present this meeting] as the new Americorps member at Dutchess Land Conservancy, who is taking over the water testing project last handled by Sara Ohliger. Jane Geisler will go out with Amanda in the near future to get a set of November samples. Ron will try to get Amanda a key so she can have access to the wells as needed. Amanda plans to continue the testing regimen over the winter. Ron indicated he had received a report of the Morgan Stewart well not functioning, but Gerry indicated all the recent shelter register entries he has read do not mention any problems with the well. Since the last meeting, Walt Daniels, Ron Rosen, George Muller, and Jane Geisler were able to repair the Wiley Well, including changing the leathers, super-chlorinating the well, and resealing the pump onto the flange. Ron explained that he had discovered that Dutchess Wholesalers in Poughkeepsie stocks the two leathers needed to repair the pump, and he passed around one of two extra sets that he had purchased for future needs at Wiley and/or Morgan Stewart (both have the same pump model). A set of leathers costs about $10. The old main piston leather had worn down completely, with no contact whatever between the leather and the cylinder wall; that leather had been fabricated "on the fly" by one of the well drilling firms from old leather stock, which may have explained its premature failure. The new one is clearly pre-impregnated with some kind of oil.

To the best of our knowledge, there has been no progress on the work planned for the Yegella spring house "pool" and protection of the water supply there from animal contamination. Ron did indicate that he had seen a copy of an Email from Don Owen to the Dutchess County Water and Waste Water authority authorizing them to remove the welded cap of the Yegella well to determine if that well meets the criteria of their planned water table/rainfall study.

D. Telephone Line at Dover Oak Tree update: Frank:Dogil reported that Verizon has started clearing for the new line, but the poles have not been moved yet to his knowledge.

E. YRDC Fall 2002 activities: YRDC intended to use their fall program crews to perform additional work on installing the "No Hunting" signs and a limited amount of boundary maintenance. A major thrust was planned for "Make A Difference Day" in late October, but that day was rained out. Work trips were also scheduled for some of the after-school programs, but one of the leaders injured his back and they were only able to do one afternoon' s effort. A lot of the "No Hunting" signs still need to be installed, but it is unlikely that YRDC' s crews can do the work this week (before hunting season starts).

F. Alvarez encroachment (Hosner Mtn.) Follow-up: Jim Haggett had planned to meet with workers from Allen' s Tree Service on Monday at the site [they ultimately never showed up]. The work includes killing Ailanthus trees that may have sprung up and applying herbicide to the stumps. Allen' s should have returned the contract to NPS by now.

G Hunting Season planning Gun deer season starts Monday, November 18, and runs to December 10th. Ron mailed the standard hunting press release to his list of media and interested parties. Ron also passed out the temporary no-hunting signs to supeervisors for immediate installation at road crossings where hunting is likely. Run commented that Pawling Fish and Game had been told via letter from Bob Gray to remove signs that are incorrectly posting NPS lands. Ron observed that problems [in the form of calls from neighboring landowners and homeowners] seem to be on the decline in recent years.

H. We have received a letter from Jewish Family Services asking for our participation in Mitzvah Day, May 4, 2003. They would like the project forms returned ASAP, but at least by the end of the year. After some discussion, we came up with the following project ideas: Walt Daniels would lead a group to develop a new side trail from the AT to the Philips Mine; Jane Geisler [or her designee in ADK] would lead a group continuing the removal of old decking material at the Swamp River puncheon; and Mike Arthur suggested moving the privy at Telephone Pioneers shelter. Each will get back to Ron with details and Ron will submit the paperwork to Jewish Family Services.

• We discussed the issue of getting the Bulletin Boards designed, built, and installed. Ron Rosen, Walt Daniels, and Jane Daniels worked out possible layouts of the contents while in PA for the Mid-Atlantic ATC Regional meeting, and concluded that a 4' by 4' format would work best, and would allow for a 4x8 sheet of materials to be used for two bulletin boards. The next step is to pick a design for the frame and roof from the samples Walt has accumulated and posted on the NYNJTC web site, and develop a materials list per bulletin board. Ron will check with YRDC to see if there are any youth crew programs that could be used to build the boards; we would then apply to the NYNJTC for a Levers' youth grant [and/or obtain donation of some of the costs of materials] to fund the materials cost and the youth corps would construct the boards off-site, and perhaps install them also.
• Someone asked about follow-through on the dog bites at Stormville Mountain Road. Ron explained that he had spoken with Bob Gray at the Regional Meeting, and Bob had agreed to follow through with the East Fishkill Dog Control officer and others as appropriate. At that meeting, Ron also complained to ATC staff about the extensive delay in our obtaining the paperwork on the earlier Dog Bite (took 11 weeks to get to us!), and pointed out that our handling of the later dog bite incident would have been significantly different if we were aware of the earlier incident. Also, Gerry Richardson checked the Morgan Stewart shelter log and uncovered two other incidents where people were severely threatened by the same two dogs; Ron has copied the pages from the shelter log and forwarded them to Bob Gray. Ron will check with Bob to see if he has followed through with the incident.

3. Meeting feature

Recommendations to NPS for Camp Siwanoy property: It is now certain that Westchester-Putnam Council of the Boy Scouts have sold Camp Siwanoy to a private owner, Tudor Jones of Pawling. It is not clear what his expectations are about use of the property. However, when we planned to work on the Wiley Shelter Well, Ron was able to locate and contact Mr. Jones' caretaker at the Pawling field office and get permission to use the road into the Rifle Range to access the well. At that time, Ron indicated to the caretaker that we would like to meet with them at a later date to discuss the terms of the NPS easement, access to the property, etc.

In any event, the conversion of this property to private ownership casts doubt about the long-term future of the property. After some discussion, the Committee recommended that the NPS buy full fee interest in the present easement lands. Additionally, the NPS should seek a legal easement to the Wiley Shelter Well [using the roadway that the well-drilling truck used], which would allow for materials to be brought in as needed for repairs to the shelter or the well. Ron Rosen will forward this recommendation to the NPS for further consideration.

4. Reports:

A. Area Supervisors Summaries:

Jane Geisler mentioned that she encountered the Hartmann surveyors working on the boundary near Wiley Shelter. She noted that the Brown ROW from Johnson Road [over the CMH parcel] needs blocking, as heavy ATV use of that access is occuring.

Frank Dogil expanded on his investigation of the Johnson Road boundary problems. He has forwarded digital photos and descriptions of various "back-yard" incursions to Bob Gray, and Bob is working on a suitable NPS response to the homeowners. He plans to post some appropriate signs on the boundary where needed. Walt explained to him how to obtain a sign order from ATC. Frank has seen some of the new survey work completed along the CMH Property boundary near Johnson Road.

Mike Arthur is waiting to hear from Keith Jordy, who may adopt Dennis Kloepping' s old section of trail. Mike expressed some concern about Steve Norbutt' s informal work at Morgan Stewart shelter, and Ron will send Steve another Email in response. Shelter caretakers are needed at both Morgan Stewart shelter [presuming Doug Senterman will not be available much longer] and at Telephone Pioneers [personal and health problems have prevented Mitch Steiner and Julie Angle from adequately handling the work].

Jim Haggett (Called-in report via Ron Rosen). Jim reported that the RPH shelter would be closed up soon, in any event prior to the start of hunting season. A sofa was dumped by parties unknown at the Route 52 parking area, and volunteers moved it to the roadside where DOT arranged for its removal! Jim received an Email from Bruce Edmonston of NPS ROVA site indicating that he has had no follow-up contact with the [East?] Fishkill Policy Sgt. who had left a message for him [Bruce] regarding some trail-related problem, perhaps the dumping incident. Bruce considers the issue closed. Tom McCarthy' s crew has been out two times in the last two months to deal with blowdowns and other problems on the trail sections north and south of Long Hill Road. Jim reported a verbal complaint by an older-woman hiker who got lost in the vicinity of the Shenandoah Campsite, wandered off the trail, and [probably] down the driveway ROW to the road, where she got a ride back to RPH. Jim wondered if anyone has heard anything more from Pat Manning {Sr.) concerning his interest in volunteering. No one was aware of any contact with Mr. Manning.

Walt Daniels had no additional items to report (but see the ATC reports below).

B. Other reports

ATC Mid-Atlantic Meeting: Walt Daniels noted that one of the issues discussed was renewal of the 10-year delegation agreement between NPS, ATC, and the clubs [including NYNJTC]. Those in attendance were asked to comment on specifics. Ron attended the morning sessions only, and reported on our Committee' s activities for the year.

Walt also reported on the ATC Board meeting. As a member of the relevant board Committee, an item under discussion at the Board Meeting [and the regional meeting] was the issue of Chain Saw Certification. Also discussed at the Board Meeting was ADA accessibility for the trail; the Forest Service has taken the initiative for its portions of the trail, but their plans are not binding on the NPS lands. The current proposal allows ADA compliance to be considered on an exception basis, so that most actions on the trail [relocations, building shelters, etc.] will not require ADA compatibility.

5. Other communications & announcements as time remains

The next meeting is scheduled for December 30th at the East Fishkill Library. We have scheduled a snow date of January 6th. Since the Library has not accepted applications for next year yet, we don' t know for sure if that date will be available; Mike Arthur offered his house for January 6th if we cannot get the library for that date.

Ron discussed the suggestion made earlier this year to consider using a standard meeting date whenever possible. We agreed to move to one Monday in alternate months. Ron will check with Jim Haggett to check his availability for next year, but the plans are to use the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd Monday of odd months for our meetings, and choose weather dates as available. Ron will check with Jim and will then submit an application to the Library for our 2003 meeting dates.

6. The meeting was adjourned at 9:39 PM.

Submitted by Walt Daniels, with post-processing by Ron Rosen.