Trail Conditions Forum

Mud? Ice? High water at stream crossings?

This is the place to let the trail community know what you encountered, where and when (be as precise as possible). Suggestion: Make the trail or park name your subject.

To report serious trail problems that need Trail Conference attention, including illegal trail use issues, visit our Contact Us page. Problems reported through our Contact Us page get to the maintainers fast and reliably. Problems reported on the forum below may help fellow trail users avoid problem areas until they get fixed, but not all maintainers read this regularly.


 

johnm's picture

Responding to Harriman Problems posted September 8th: Previous reponses were on the mark.  The TC does not, and is not allowed to, maintain the woods roads. This is in accordance with park rules as posted in various kiosks that users are to keep to marked trails: these roads are not in that category.  As was mentioned, blockage of ATVs is a worthy consideration: usage of powered vehicles off road in the park is prohibited.   The supposition that the square concrete structures were part of CCC-era is confirmed in Harriman Trails, A Guide and History, William J. Myles and Daniel Chazin, 3rd Edition, Published by the New York-New Jersey Trail Conference, P. 77.  After noting that the traill passes the foundation of a Civilian Conservation Corps building, the following paragraph includes "The Pine Meadow Trail now crosses the road and follows the north shore of the lake. For much of the way it follows old water and sewer pipes, usually buried but sometimes placed above ground on a rock causeway, which serves today as the trail route.This pipeline, and others around Lakes Wanoksink and Minsi, were built in 1934 to service the camps which were to be built on the lakes.  The pipelines all terminate in a large (but never used) concrete septic tank on Christie Brook."   The trash situation is a problem of long standing.  PVPatrick's reply that "Obviously, the persons that left the trash are responsible.  But anyone could help take it away." is of course correct.  It is a bit much to expect the trail maintainers to haul out all of this trash.  The shortest distance to carry the trash to a roadside for pickup  is somewhat greater than two miles.  Possibly a volunteer team could be assembled to bag the trash and haul it out.  If coordinated and arranged in advance there is also the possibility that the park would haul it out if bagged and hauled to an agreed upon location accessible by the park.        Removing the trash would temporarily improve the situation but there is no reason to believe that these blocks will not continue to be used for depositing trash. At this time no action plan has been defined. If many of we hikers were to take just a moderate sized bag and haul out some amount when using the trail, the situation could be much improved. Perhaps enough people will see our joint comments and follow this suggestion.
banjolady's picture

in early summer, may i think--there was a huge pile of trash over by pine meadow lake where the trail meets the road before the dam. one day i saw a ranger there hammering up a "no swimming" sign. he had a big truck right there. he said he is not taking away trash that day, he was just putting up the signs so if anyone drowned they couldnt say they didnt know swimming was illegal. apparently someone did take the trash away but then more piles appeared as the summer went on.... there is a small hand lettered sign that says "please take out your trash". not nearly as big or eye catching as the "no swimming" sign... another thing that irks me is the broken glass, lots of it near the trailheads, near the lakes and also on the early part of the blue disc trail near johnsontown rd and on the white bar. people bring bottles in and smash them?? it is horrible to see this broken glass there and especially if one has dogs..luckily most of the park is lovely and very clean, just a few spots like this.one of the park officials said that minnewaska and the gunks areas dont have these problems. the good news is that i havent seen fishing line around lately as much as earlier in the summer....
jbeard's picture

We did this hike today http://www.nynjtc.org/hike/terrace-pond-loop-stephens-road#comment-4518   and it was a good hike, with quite a bit of rock scrambling. The trails and blazes were in good condition, but it was sad to see bags full of trash, and more trash scattered around them, on three sides of Terrace Pond. Whose responsibility is it to clean up this park? The rest of the area seems clean. Jonathan
Bob's picture

Jonathan.......Our Trail maintainers and Trail supervisors for this trail area have an almost full time job attempting to keep the Terrace Pond area clear of garbage. The Superintendent and Staff of Wawayanda State park are fully aware of this problem and make regular trips up there to bag and bring down this trash. At this point we can only suggest that if you bring it IN.....Please Bring it OUT, even if it's not your garbage. It's takes all of us as hiking enthusiasts to do our part if we wish to keep our forests clean, natural and enjoyable......Thanks to all of you that have this same ethic. Bob & Estelle
joerichkus's picture

I often wish that this forum had a "Like" button or a "Thank you" button and if it did I would click on it now.
jbeard's picture

About two weeks ago, I hiked in Harriman, using the Woodtown Road to go South, and came back on the "Old Turnpike."  Not far from where the LP crosses the turnpike and ascends to the shelter where it meets the SBM, I found a large tree that had fallen across the turnpike and almost completely blocked it, trunk and branches.  Does the TC maintain this road and others?  Or does someone else, or is this an act of God that makes it harder for the ATVs and I should be glad for it?   Today, Sept 8, I walked around Pine Meadow Lake on the PM trail.  The north shore has a long series of square concrete structures that I think were part of the CCC-era water system.  3 of them had a lot of trash in them.  Maybe 2-3 kitchen trash bags full.  Who should clean this up? Jonathan
PVPatrick's picture

Obviously, the persons that left the trash are responsible. But anyone could help take it away.
Michael K7's picture

AFAIK the TC does not maintain any woods roads in the park unless they are part of a marked trail. It says on the map sets that the woods roads may be "severly overgrown, difficult to follow, and impossible to locate". The only maintenance done by the park would be on the woods roads used by park personnel, and i have no idea which roads those are. I run on the specific section you are talking about, and don't remember any new trees down in that area when i was last there a few weeks ago. There are a couple of older downed trees that already have "bypass routes" going around them.   I have no info on the PM Trail issue.
czfahn's picture

Many thanks for reporting on the Tarrytown encroachments. The NYS Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation and Friends of the Old Croton Aqueduct are well aware of numerous encroachments, most of which happened decades ago, in Tarrytown and elsewhere. I'll forward your message to the state manager of the Aqueduct trail, in case there's been any expansion of encroachments in the area you mention, and because it's important that the state hear from the public about the issue. State Parks has long planned to "take back" the spaces that residents have moved into, partly under pressure from the Friends, but it's proving to be an extremely slow process.  There has been at least one important takeback: on the Aqueduct in Yonkers, between Lamartine Ave. and Bishop Walls Place.  Charlotte Fahn
NYHIKER60's picture

While walking on the Old Croton Aqueduct in Tarrytown today I noticed a vast amount of encroachment from the surrounding houses. The owners put up fences and gardens in some cases right up to the path leaving little room to walk.  This goes all through this section just after the school and starting a few blocks down.  There is lawn furniture and other items.  If this stays like this they may try to close the corrodor altogether.  This section should be much wider and as I said, due to the problem it is now narrower than it should be.  As a former trail monitor I can see this will be a problem in the future and the longer they are there the harder it will be to move the fences and other obstacles out. A report has been sent but I want to appraise everyone of this.
NYHIKER60's picture

There's a reason it's on again off again/off again on water purity.  I was an assistant shelter maintainer and here's why: The water supplies are downhill and if you look closely, the privies just happen to all be uphill.  When it rains hard, you guessed it, the water washes DOWNHILL right into the water supply.  Do I need to say more?  How do you think that E-coli gets in there?  Just check and tell me this setup is wrong.  A case in point is the Morgan Stewart shelter.  That' all I have to say right now.  
Nicholas.allison's picture

Hi, taking a small crew of Boy Scouts SOBO on the AT In October.  I plan to use the Shenandoah Tenting site as a midway camp.  Anyone know if the water available there needs treating? Any advice?    Thanks!! 
Walt Daniels's picture

All of the Dutchess County AT wells are tested monthly during the summer and they sometimes pass and sometimes fail e-coli tests. They are all posted as must treat. 
Michael K7's picture

Another reason to hate DuPont. There's always access from the Indian Rock Trail from the lot at Back Beach Park as well as the other trails mentioned.
thegup's picture

I hadn't hiked this track since Sandy and was dismayed to see all the hard work put into replacing the 3rd steel plate bridge a few years ago completely washed away.  I hiked it Sunday morning and juding by the number of vehicles by Hibbard and the many folks I met on my trek, it is still a very popular trail.  Are there plans to replace it?  I know it's a big effort to get the necessary materials into that area.  Recovering those steel beams and plates requires heavy duty winches and skilled operators.  As an interim solution, maybe you could build a stone stairway into the steep bank heading down to the creek that serves as the detour.  It's quite slippery and I saw a woman lose her footing and land on her back pretty hard.  Luckily she was OK. 
John Magerlein's picture

As you can imagine, our crew was very disappointed when hurricane Irene destroyed bridge 3, which we had worked so hard over several months to build. There are a number of problems on School Mountain Road including several damanged or unsafe bridges and severe erosion. The park has begun a planning process to determine what should be done with the trail. Rehabilitating it to again support bicycle, horse, and foot traffic would be very costly and difficult. We have suggested different alternatives, but we can't do major work on the trail until the park decides how to proceed. We will try to build some steps leading down the bank to our temporary bridge soon. The destruction of many bridges in parks throughout the New York/New Jersey area by recent hurricanes has led us to review our bridge policy and to look more carefully at the sites where bridges are built.
Michael K7's picture

As i was finishing my run this afternoon, i saw an ATV on the abandoned telephone line path between the R-D and Triangle trails in Tuxedo. It was long gone before i could get out my camera and take a picture, for all i know it could have been a Park Ranger, although i highly doubt that. I guess you should add this area to the list of places that need to be watched.
jbeard's picture

For years, I have noticed that blowdowns that block trails in Harriman are fairly quickly removed---I assume by TC sawyers. Today I hiked in Sterling Forest, using the Lake-to-Lake, Firetower, West Valley, and Sterling Ridge trails.  We had to walk around about 15 trees that almost completely, or completely, blocked those trails.  I last used some of the same trails about a year or two ago, and I remember having to go off the trail to get around some of the same trees then.  Is there a reason the trails in Harriman are promptly cleared, and those in Sterling Forest are left blocked? Jonathan
johnm's picture

The posting  July 18 was a good note and a good question.  It is correct that marked trails in Harriman and Bear Mountain Park  are all maintained by the Trail Conference saw crews.  In Sterling Forest, the Trail Conference has not adopted all of the trails for various reasons, among them, boring and gravelled road (FIre Tower Connector), trails on eroded woods road that we are unable to improve to satisfactory condition (in this writer's opinion), example: Lake-to Lake Trail, and some other trails due to planned future multiuse designation . In addition to the two examples, we do not maintain FIretower or West Valley Trails.  As for Sterling Ridge Trail, we cleared many trees late last year (in snow), but possibly not all of them.  We have no later reports and concede that there may currently be some blockages on Sterling Ridge Trail.  We would be pleased to receive reports of tree blockage there or anywhere else, with approximate locations.  We can forward to the park any reports for trails that we do not maintain; cooperation is typically excellent.  One other consideration, though realizing that the subject posting seemed clearly to relate to significant blockages, we sometimes leave in place trees that are not difficult to get around on foot but may block ATVs, or that are low, lying on the ground and acting as water dams..  Thank you for the report.