Trail Conditions Forum

Mud? Ice? High water at stream crossings?

This is the place to let the trail community know what you encountered, where and when (be as precise as possible). Suggestion: Make the trail or park name your subject.

To report serious trail problems that need Trail Conference attention, including illegal trail use issues, visit our Contact Us page. Problems reported through our Contact Us page get to the maintainers fast and reliably. Problems reported on the forum below may help fellow trail users avoid problem areas until they get fixed, but not all maintainers read this regularly.


 

Paul_A's picture

If we take your idea to it's logical conclusion then the state should close all "public" land to people. After all every footstep we make compacts the ground and changes things for the wild life small and large. And if this is really a concern, and you think the T.C. is headed in the wrong direction, let me suggest you get involved in the TC leadership and help set a new, and proper, course. It's easy to sit behind a computer and complain, it's more admirable to work for what you think is right and correct. And yes, I think your 2 cents is worth just as much as anyone else's, 2 cents.
thex's picture

Unfortunately, your 2 cents isn't worth that much Paul_A. You are assuming. I'm sure U know what happens when you do that., but leave ME out of it. I never mentioned once to "close all "public" land to people". Where did you get that? Re-read and take it for what it is and not what you want it to be (now thats admirable!). I'm stating that nature should take its course in these areas. And footsteps don't impact the land nearly as much as the staircase does (even with the millions of people or whatever the TC claims uses it), but it makes it worse, because people will be walking around the staircase. You'll see very soon. When is the concession stands and ferris wheels going up along the AT or somewhere else in Bear Mountain/Harriman? It would be a great money maker for the TC. Then, they can start building staircases all over the park. at every incline. And at this point, garbage cans should be put along the trail every 20 feet or so, but I doubt they would be used. We should all stop wondering why people around here are fat, spoiled, weak and lazy. My point is, leave the trails be and hike them! If you can't climb, then don't. Either find a simpler trail or just stay in the picnic area and eat some more. BTW, the TC is going to do what the TC wants to do to help their business grow. I've tried before.
Georgette Weir's picture

The rebuilt A.T. on the east face of Bear Mountain is intended to:
1. stop and prevent erosion on the mountain caused by hundreds of thousands of hikers who already scramble up it each year
2. encourage people to stay on the trail rather than create a maze of damaging herd paths
3. eliminate the recurring need for relocations (this is the 6th or 7th since the trail's original construction) owing to the high volume of traffic
4. provide a positive trail experience for the novice hikers who frequent this trail section
5. provide opportunities to educate the public about proper trail etiquette (this will be a special focus for the next phase of the Bear Mountain Trails Project)

The mission of the Trail Conference is to promote people's connection with nature, not keep people from enjoying their public parks. Bear Mountain and Harriman State Parks are not wilderness areas, which can be found elsewhere in the state.

PVPatrick's picture

deleted
hiker4414's picture

Anyone who does the math can tell you there are not hundreds of thousands of hikers who "scramble up" Bear Mtn each year. Are you counting those who drive to the top? Even with them, it would be very hard to reach your numbers. NYNJTC does a fine job organizing the maintenance of 1,700 miles of trails and probably spends far less than $1,000,000 of the TC budget on trail maintenance. To spend $2,000,000? on a mile or two of trail? To devote 30,000 hours of volunteer service and tie up TC supervision and resources for a mile or two of trail? Imagine if all that effort and a small part of those dollars went into the other 1,698 miles of trails ... the trails reachable without paying an $8.00 parking fee. Then you would be doing something for the hiking public. Ninety percent of your membership doesn't climb mountains to see all the motorcycles and hear blasting radios. I have to agree with those who say the TC is in the AT relo for (perceived benefit from attracting new members) for the money. I do hope the yahoo with the can of spray paint won't come along and sour the volunteer spirit.
Michael K7's picture

"Ninety percent of your membership doesn't climb mountains to see all the motorcycles and hear blasting radios."

Exactly.
What's next, a staircase up Breakneck Ridge for those who can't make the climb?
NLSL_Conquerer's picture

I know, I was hiking along those steps, then the next day I was hiking storm king, and I saw breakneck and sugarloaf, schunemunk, etc. I was like, what next, staircases up those too? No need to drive to a view, just hike an extra few
thex's picture

Bear Mountain/Harriman State Park are not wilderness areas? Tell that to the bears, deer, snakes, coyote, fox, rats, insects, etc that call these parks home. Tell it to the people camping under the stars. Tell it to yourself when you want to get away into the forest and have it feel natural. 1. Let nature take its course. How bad could the erosion be? Its a very rocky area. 2. Encourages people to easily go places to make noise and litter where they didn't have the stamina to go before. 3. Why would that section NEED to be relocated? Maybe another thing that works for NYNJTC? 4. There are many other trails that "novice" hikers can go to within the two parks. Besides, you didn't need to be a "pro" to climb the old AT section. You just need to have a little stamina and not be lazy. 5. Why not educate people about the wildlife there and their needs? Teaching trail etiquette? How? Put up a sign? Have a little class that only senior citizens can/will go to? Get people to understand the wildlife in their WILDERNESS area and then maybe they will respect the wildlifes home, in turn, getting your proper "trail etiquette". Harriman State Park and Bear Mountain State Park are NOT amusement parks, like you are trying to make them. Think about it Georgette Weir.
hiker4414's picture

"the Bear Mountain section of the trail, used by a half-million people a year" That adds up to 1,370 people using the AT at Bear Mtn each and every day of the year. Rain, snow, whatever. On many off season weekdays you would be lucky to find 30 cars in the parking lot and I'd guess half the visitors don't hike at all. The true number of Bear Mtn AT Trail users in a year is?
Zap's picture

Hey, my name is Tim, I'm from Rochester, NY. I leave in two weeks to attempt a north to south thru hike of the Long Path. Planning on spending about 4 weeks on the trail, a few days off in NYC to rest, and heading up to VT for a north bound hike of the Long Trail. Any support you can offer about blow downs, trail closings, cheap eats, short side trips, or a place to rest in the no camping areas would be truely appreciated. Wish me luck! Tim [email protected]
srtmaintainer's picture

Tim, we need to chat on the phone. I have section hiked the LP northbound and thru hiked the Vermont Long Trail southbound. I will email you with my contact information. Andy
jmb's picture

Anyone know what's up with this MUA adjacent to the Mohonk Preserve, which is shown with campsites on the 2008 map #105? Is it still open for camping, and if so, is it still "a noisy, garbage filled rat hole with drum circles until 4am"?

That quote comes from this 2008 thread about possible closure: http://gunks.com/ubbthreads7/ubbthreads.php/topics/38299/1

This seems to be the closest thing to any official info online: http://gunksclimbers.org/MUA.shtml

I'm considering heading there for Memorial Day weekend to do day hikes into the preserve, but if it's closed or generally crowded on weekends then I'll make other plans.

banjolady's picture

can someone please explain what these park closings will mean for us hikers? such as anthony wayne--does this mean the parking lots will be blocked off or just not maintained? at this point the south lot has never reopened from its winter closing. is there anything we can do to take care of this ourselves? are rangers being let go? inquiring minds want to know...
Georgette Weir's picture

The Trail Conference expects that the north lot at Anthony Wayne will remain accessible, though facilities (bathrooms) may be shut. At parks slated for closing where there are no facilities, such as Schunemunk and Wonder Lake, we expect that from a trail users perspective, it will be business as usual. You may want to call ahead and see if you can get a clear answer.

There may be less or no ranger presence than is typical, so now more than ever, hikers and trail volunteers will be the eyes and ears on the ground that will protect our parks. If you spot any illegal activity or other problem, contact the park offices or the Trail Conference. You can find a brochure on our website with contact info--a good thing to print out and carry with you. Click here to find it. Or submit an Illegal Activity Report online.

Report any actual closings back here. Thanks!

Larry Wheelock's picture

Am working on getting specifics from park managers. Are hikers allowed in the parks? Are trail maintainers free to maintain and will they be covered by workman's comp? Waiting for answers.

coolhandgatsby's picture

I like the idea of park rangers checking in on some of the shelters, but I don't think that will happen anytime soon. A few years ago I spent four days backpacking through the park. I stopped at the Lake Welch Beach area and spoke to a couple of rangers telling them I was going to spend the night at the Big Hill Shelter and they had no idea what I was talking about, or even where the Big Hill Shelter was. Perhaps the trail conference can put some time into placing posts inside the lean-to's about Leave No Trace and the dangers of leaving food and garbage out to attract bear. If not, maybe I'll take the initiative and spend a couple bucks on plastic sleeves and thumbtacks and do it myself.
coolhandgatsby's picture

I've done extensive hiking in Harriman State Park for the past ten years and often stay overnight. I'm becoming increasingly worried about the full 30 gallon bags of garbage and empty liquor bottles I'm finding at the lean-to's. I've seen this at the Tom Jones shelter most recently, and other shelters around the park. Of the bear encounters that I've read about in the area, the bear seem to be becoming comfortable with a human presence and often stand their ground or flank hikers who continue along the trail. Bear population in the area has been increasing, areas around the park are densely populated, and if "Leave No Trace" is contunually ignored and the shelters remain baited with garbage then a bad bear encounter is inevitable.
sslogger366's picture

This is definitely not good and shows a lack of respect for others as well as the environment. Years ago I ran into the "party shelter" crowd and just set camp as far from them as possible. I'm planning to do some hiking up around West Mountain...have there been any bear sitings in the Northern section of Harriman State Park?
PVPatrick's picture

I had several bear encounters last season around doodletown. I was at West Mt shelter today and there are bags full of garbage shoved into one of the fireplaces (as well as the leaky roof with the plastic over it) and new fireplaces being built around the shelter. I wish that the park rangers could make a sweep of the shelters on weekends to disuade those less civilized folks.
Michael K7's picture

I don't think the problem is with most of the people hiking. It's the "other" people who decide to use the shelters/trails as their party zone that cause the problem. How to enforce the LNT principals is a tough question, one for which i don't have an answer. But i agree with you, it's only a matter of time before we're going to have a bad incident involving a bear. I was hoping to never need to carry bear spray for simple hikes in Harriman; unfortunately if this continues, it may become a necessity.