General and Off Topic

Forum for General and Off-topic Discussions

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thegup's picture

The digital maps should be free to members who have purchased the print versions. I am sure you know who bought what and when. Making loyal subscribers pay for this new service is short sighted IMHO.  If you provided the redundant maps for free and the service is as good as it looks on paper, I am sure people would buy the ones they don't have rather quickly.  I know I would.  Using your method, you risk selling far less than you would if you did it the way I suggest.  I may overcome my dismay at some point and buy digital for maps I dont currently possess but I refuse to pay for what I already have in print.  I urge you to rethink your sales strategy on this.
Jeremy Apgar's picture

Thank you for your comment and opinion about our current pricing model for digital maps available through the PDF Maps app.  As you imply, we currently do not offer discounts to members or owners of the print versions.  We do appreciate the loyalty from members like yourself, but also feel that the digital maps are not redundant as you suggest.

The digital maps, while containing the same trails as the print maps, provide an entirely new and enhanced functionality that, we feel, provides justification for their pricing.  Unlike the print maps, these digital maps take full advantage of tying in with GPS-enabled devices, allow one to pinpoint their exact location on the map, can capture tracks and waypoints of your travels as overlays, allow distances to be measured and locations to be pinpointed using their coordinates, provide an opportunity to view satellite imagery of an area, use a built-in compass to orient the map, and they can also be enlarged on high-resolution mobile device displays to scales much better than the print map.

In addition to these features, the digital maps are priced as they are so that they can continue to provide an important source of financial support for our trail maintenance, trail building, and trail advocacy efforts in the region.  Sales of our publications are an important piece of our organization's incoming funds, and these digital maps help toward this support.  The development and upkeep of the digital maps also incurs costs that we look to recoup with digital map sales.

This is still a relatively new means of distributing maps for us, so we appreciate the feedback from members like yourself because it does help as we periodically evaluate the product.  The possibility of providing discounts in some way is one thing we intend to explore in the near future.  In the meantime, the digital maps continue to be downloaded in great amounts as more and more people discover how useful they can be in the field.  I would suggest checking out our selection of free maps (using the free app) to try out the functionality and decide whether that functionality for the for-sale maps is worth the price to you or not.

~Jeremy Apgar
TC Cartographer

thegup's picture

The industry standard is that if both print and dgital subscriptions are available, purchasing print automatically gives you free acces to digital but not the other way around. Almost all newspapers and magazines use that model. 
Jeremy Apgar's picture

I appreciate your thoughts, but must disagree with the notion that our print and digital maps are part of the same industry as newspaper and magazine subscriptions.  Our maps are distinct products that are more in line with other media like books and music.  Purchasing a physical book usually does not include a free electronic e-book (although there certainly may be some exceptions).  The maps, either print or digital, are not available through a subscription, but are individual products available online, at various outdoor retailers, and now, through the Avenza app.~Jeremy ApgarTC Cartographer
thegup's picture

You can rationalize all kind of justifications for greed,which up until now, was contrary to the TC's soul.  Very dissapointing.
banjolady's picture

i found a phone on the RD/AT trails south of tiorati. please contact me with details. the phone is screen locked so i cannot get enough info to find the owner.   susan  914 282 0289 or [email protected]
smithg2010's picture

Combining my own personal observations with those of older posts, it would seem that almost any exposed grassy/craggy hilltop in Harriman SP or East Hudson Highlands is fair game to experience a sighting (or hearing!) at some point or other.  (Granted some more than others - or are those trails just more frequently hiked?)  I'm not sure that by avoiding the trails with sightings, you are guaranteed to be in the clear on a similar-type trail a few miles away.  From my limited experience, the best way to avoid them is to stick to moist wooded trails (of course those are also the ones without the views lol).    The guidebooks do mention certain areas in the Catskills like Overlook Mtn.
Bob's picture

The worst thing for both hikers and the reptiles is to publicize their wherabouts. This only encourages collection by hobbyists and the Snakes lose their much needed protection. This is an endangered species and sightings should be reported to NJ ENSP, or the appropriate agency in NY State so the sites can be registered. Eventhough the Timber Rattlers and Copperheads are denning animals, they forage over a fairly large range, so the best percaution for hiker safety is to watch where you're putting your hands and feet and keep alert.
qvideo's picture

Thanks Bob. You make a good point. However I'm not so sure that most users of this site are would-be snake hunters. My intent, as i sometimes hike with my dog, was to get a sense of areas that are less inhabited by Rattlers. I would consider myself a cautious hiker, but my dog is quite curious of other animals and I don't care to find out how she would respond to anything larger than a garter snake. i also understand that dogs are more suscepitble (spell-check!) to rattlesnake bites than humans are. 
Sona Mason's picture

a major why park rules request dogs stay on a leash: to protect both the dog and wildlife (and other hikers) from injury
PVPatrick's picture

Ive seen rattlers laying in the trail in the rain, on shady damp woods roads as well as sunny rock outcroppings.  I agree being aware and alert and sensibly keeping your dog on a short leash are wise practices.
qvideo's picture

I would like to propose a page dedicated to rattlesnake spottings. In my own experience, I see a definite rise in Timber rattlers in the NY / NJ area. By compiling a list of spottings (encounters), we could perhaps get a sense of where these critters are populating. I requested the same thing on, but with the broader reach of the TC, I think we could gain some valuable insight.
Sona Mason's picture

And Bob iterates above - it's best not to reveal the location of rattlers: they invariably get collected by poachers, and are a protected species. The incidence of rattler bites is largely limited to off-leash dogs and youths with sticks. Best leave nature well alone.'s picture

Is any one going to  the 4th Annual Trails Work Day at Minnewaska State Park  on 15 September 2013.  10 AM to 3 PM.  I am interested in going.   BT
rshiking14's picture

Hey guys. I'm planing an overnight trip for this weekend of the 7th through 8th. My dad is not as athletically fit as I and we are looking to do a 6-7 one day, 6-7 mile loop back the next day from a shelter. Do any of you have any reccomendations for routes? Preferably a shelter near a reliable water source (to filter and cook). Thanks for the help!
qvideo's picture

You didn't say where you were thinking about going or where you were starting from. That kind of leaves the field wide open. There are many trails in Harriman that will suit your needs - you can make lots of loops using the trail network there. If you're inclined to head up to High Point State Park(in NJ), you could make a nice loop using the AT to Mashipacong shelter,and the Iris trail to go back. (start & end at the Park office at Rte 23). After reading your post, i kinda hope your dad outwalks you...just because  ;-)
rshiking14's picture

Silvermine parking lot. I didn't mean that comment about my dad seriously. He just recovered from a knee injury so don't want him to re injure. We settled on taking menomine to nawahunta fire road to long path and back to menomine up to will brien shelter.
qvideo's picture

I wasn't all that serious either, but I guess there is only so much expression a winky face can evoke. It was simply a case of one old goat defending another.  :-)
harorld's picture

Hi everyone! I am thinking of hiking/camping on Hunter Mountain. I was wondering if anyone has hiked/camped the Hunter Mountain Fire Tower loop and if there are good areas to camp off trail. I have my own gear/tent etc and would prefer not to camp in a formal camground with other people.   If Hunter Mountain isn't so great for hiking/camping, can anyone recommend a loop in the Catskills with a great view where i can spend one night out?   Also, regular hunting season doesnt start in the north Catskills until Nov 16, but bow hunting season starts on September 27. I don't plan on camping during regular hunting season, but should I be wary about hiking/camping during early bowhunting season (Oct 1 - Nov 25)   Thanks!
qvideo's picture

I haven't hiked / camped the Hunter Mtn loop. but I have been to North-South Lake in Haines Falls, and the trails are real nice there with good views.