ATCC October 1, 2010

Fri, 10/01/2010 (All day)


  1. Review of the minutes of the 2/10/2010 conference call meeting. 
  2. LL Bean Grants Implementation & Future     
    • D/P AT maps and brochure -- are other committees interested in a similar implementation?     
    • Neighbor Relations grant  
      • progress report on brochure content. 
      • Would O/R or NJ like to host a public meeting? [If so, bring date(s) and likely locations to this meeting].     
    • Any ideas for next round of grants? 
  3. Status of documents:     
    • NY MOU -- how can we revive its final implementation (signing ceremony?).     
    • NJ MOU -- any activity?     
    • NY Management Plan consolidation (light a fire under Ron!) 
  4. MARPC Meeting October 23 & 24     
    • Attendance plan (who's going, any carpools?)     
    • Proposals/action items (do we want to propose anything? ; do we have anything to react to?)    
    • 1-minute summary for each AT Committee [PLEASE PREPARE AND Email to the ATCHAIRS or bring to this meeting!] 
  5. Current major projects -- progress and/or funding issues     
    • a. Bear Mountain     
    • b. Swamp River Boardwalk and Bridge     
    • c. Other? 
  6. 5-year plan updates 
  7. Other issues     
    • Shelter Log Books -- collection and ultimate disposition     
    • AT Lands issues -- updates, improving communications, etc.     
    • Fahnestock/Hudson Highlands Master Plan     
    • Town of Warwick trail town designation? 
  8. Next meeting date 
  9. Any other items?


Groups audience: 

Walt Daniels, G. Gail Neffinger, RonRosen, Gene Giordano, Jim Haggett Larry Wheelock. Attending for part of the meeting: LeighDraper, Karen Lutz, Chris Ingui, Ed Goodell

Status of Minutes: 

NY-NJ Trail Conference Appalachian Trail Management Committee


Minutes for the October 01, 2010 meeting

Action items are underlined.

Yellowhighlight indicates additional information may be needed.

This meeting was attended by:

Walt Daniels, G. Gail Neffinger, RonRosen, Gene Giordano, Jim Haggett Larry Wheelock.  Attending for part of the meeting: LeighDraper, Karen Lutz, Chris Ingui, Ed Goodell

The meeting began at 9:35 am

Review of the minutes of the last meeting, 02/10/2010.

Minutes approved unanimously

Updates on action items from 02/10/2010 meeting:

­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­Status ofdocuments: NY MOU, NJ MOU, Management Plan Consolidation

NYMOU, re: Draft Fahnstock SP MP issues:

Larry will draft wording in the MOU - Land Managing Partners Agree" chapter, sections2 and 3 to reflect need to obligate partners to protect the AT and Corridorzone from park facility development without consultation and agreement frompartners. He will also review wording of the whole doc with Gaylord once again.

NYMOU completion: Committee agreed to push for completion date of 2011 National Trails Day

NJ MOU: We are waiting for completion of the NY MOU to use as a template for the NJ one. We will start the contact list before then.

Local Management Plans:  Walt has posted copies on the Committee web page.

Ron agreed to move this forward.

(Since Karen needed to leave shortly it was agreed that some agenda items will be moved forward)

FahnstockS. P. Master Plan Response:  Concernis raised that the Park may have included plans to develop various facilitieswhich would directly affect the AT and its purpose.

Leigh Draper is coordinating the response from the NYNJTC to the MP

Karen agreed to work with Pam Underhill to draft a response to the Plan from the ATC/NPS


ATCommunity Partner Program: Karen indicated that this program is starting to move forward. Considering the possibility of working with Unionville, Warwick, Vernon, or Pauling she asks that the Committee have a discussion as to which we'd prefer to start with.

In a discussion later in the meeting Gene indicated that Karen prefered to concentrate the Trail Town program for this region, in Vernon, but he would like to see the program implemented in Warwick. Gene feels that Warwick is a more hiker friendly town and that the plan could help motivate a greater sense of stewardship for the AT there. It was mentioned that Vernon does have a history of AT support, though.


Ron raised the issue that some ATC/NPS staff have intervened in some "neighbor" issues without consulting with local AT Mgt. Karen indicatedthat she'd be sure that when the ATC or NPS staff are working in a clubs area they would bring in the club.

Lost SUP paper work:

Walt reported that the paperwork for a SUP for a horse farm near Greymoor had been lost when Caroline came on. (I missed some of the discussion here and it might need some filling out)

Ferneau House Demolition: Karen indicated that possibly the house could be demolished in2011

Karen -ATC updates on various projects:

  • TSL proposals have been submitted for the Wallkill Bridge - We might complete final design after the TS&L (type size and location) conceptual engineering and the environmental assessment by spring of 2011. Those documents will lead to a "preferred alternative" at which point we contract for a final design of that alternative and begin looking for construction funds.
  • The boardwalk in Pauling will be completed next year and is expected to start attracting a lot of attention to the AT in that area.
  • Bear Mtn project may be done by end of next year
  • Trail to Every Classroom Vernon project is proving success. Ron and Jim indicate that they'd like to see the program applied in Pauling community. Gene asks that there be more communication between the local Mgt Committee and Vernon Schools with the program. Karen said she'd do what she can.

(Karen left the meeting at this point)

NaturalHeritage Monitoring Program:

Larry reported that Casey Reese is revitalizing the program and that we'll be looking for additional volunteers in the near future. Only a fraction of the original monitors are still with the program and currently we have no project manager.


The draft for the D/P AT Neighbors Brochure was discussed and it was thought that it needs further condensing. Gene suggested that it needs to focus on who it's aimed toward. Jim explained that it's aimed at AT corridor neighbors and to some degree to municipal planners and will include information about appropriate trail use, why it's protected land, etc. Gene; there are two groups to consider - those who have a very casual interest and those who have a more intimate relationship and would likely want more information.

It was made clear that the brochure is supposed to lead to public meetings where neighbors would be able to get more detailed information. It was suggested that the brochure should be useful beyond the meetings, though, and perhaps a separate fact sheet should also be made available to those whom ask for more.

D/P ATBrochure:

An LLBean Grant was received for a brochure for the AT in Dutchessand Putnam Counties. Leigh reported that Jeremy is working on the map and that the narrative portion still needs to be produced. Ron pointed out that the funds are supposed to be spent by the end of the calendar year. The ADK Mid-Hudson Chapter has contributed $500 for a printing of the brochure.

Gene suggested that we should consider a similar brochure for NJ and O/R AT sections. It was suggested that the most useful section would be from High Point, NJ through to Lakes Road (Route 5), in NY.

LL Bean Grants:

Suggestions were taken for the next round of LL Bean Grant applications due: _______________________

In priority order they were:

  1. AT Brochure (Use D/P AT brochure format), for NJ from High Point S. P. to NY route 5 (Lakes Road) aprox. $1990. Suggest that we go to AMC for a match amount.
  2. Tim Messerich's needs $600 for tools. It's suggested that his crew be considered the official D/P AT Crew.
  3. A D/P privy upgrade for $150

Two bridge projects were mentioned as needing planning for type, size and location. They are the Little Dam Lake bridge in Orange County and the Swamp River bridge in Dutchess County - both in NY.


Ron will work on this.

MARPC Meeting (Shartlesville, PA 10/23-24/10):

Planning to attend: Walt Daniels, RonRosen, Leigh Draper and Larry Wheelock, Jim Haggett, Dan Hoberman and Gail Neffinger may attend.  Gene cannot attend. 

The Committee recommended that as many appropriate staff as possible should attend.

Meeting agenda items:  Bridge Policy

  1. Bullet one; OK
  2. Bullet two; recommend a size restriction for this requirement or that it's required only if an engineer's approval is required as well.
  3. Bullet three; Suggest that bridge materials be indigenous, natural materials or at least from the same region.

Remaining items are considered OK


BearMountain - Gail reported that we're off Perkins Drive now. Chris reported that the Summit Loop will be done next year and the upper east face section will be done in 2012 if the funds can be found for it. 2013 work will begin the non-AT work. The Park administration is taking some issue with the signage plan. There needs to be a discussion about the signage - Ed?

SwampRiver Boardwalk - Approximately 700 feet of the boardwalk has been completed. The Mid-Atlantic Crew has been up four times to work on it.

New Jersey Issues: 

Gene reported that 5 new mouldering privies had been built and installed along the AT in NJ. The privy for the Mashipacong shelter was not installed when the "maintenance department revolted". They claimed they could keep the current Clivus privy going and didn't want to have one of the new ones. They claimed the Clivus ones are up to code and that the new ones are not. Gene said he'd heard that when the maintenance people went to renew their union contract they also complained that volunteers were taking their workaway. When Gene talked to Regional Superintendent, Steve Ellis and Wawayanda SP Superintendent, Jessica Kruegel they supported the new privies and the workdone to install them and Jessica agreed to take the Mashipacong one for the shelter in Wawayanda.

Gene and Larry briefed the Committee on the Dennis Miranda Issue in Vernon, NJ. In a nutshell: Dennis Miranda, head of the Vernon EnvironmentalCommission, lodged a complaint to various elected officials, NPS, NJ DEP, ATCand the NYNJTC that the AT was not being properly managed in the Vernon area, saying that the maintenance was damaging sensitive habitats etc. He has been asked to provide evidence of this and has not responded. When Pam Underhill approached him with a suggestion that he meet with some of the Federal, ATC,State and local managers to discuss the issues he attempted to make the meetinga public forum and Pam was obliged to cancel. The issue has gone quite for the time being.

Shelter Logs:

A discussion was held to figure out what to do with the shelter logs which have been collected by the Trail Conference for years. It was mentioned that there is a place to store them in Harper's Ferry.  Larry will collect what we have and deliver to the MARPC meeting


5 Year Planning:

Gail asked if the demolition needs to be in the 5 year budgeting plan. His concern is for the demolition of the Ferneau house on 17A. The demolition has been stalled for some time. It was recommended to Gail that the complaints about the house should go directly to Dave Reus since he is the person who could move the demolition forward.

The question concerning the 5 year budgeting for demolition remains to be asked at the MARPC meeting.



Jim reported that the Lands Office has hired a new surveyor - Kirk Norton.

Walt asked what kind of authority can reset a monument. (another question for someone at the MARPC meeting?)

Bear Mountain AT Connector Trail:

Gail recommended that the section along the Scenic Drive on Bear Mountain between the Cul-de-sac and the junction of new south bound section with the Drive be officially designated a Connector Trail with blue blazes. TheCommittee approved this suggestion.

AT Map Design:

It was mentioned that some people would like to see the AT maps returned to an earlier design. (I do not recall what was decided on this issue - need some more information)


MARPC - March 5 and 6, NYNJTC AT Mgt Committee meeting - February9, Wednesday.