Notes from Chainsaw Subcommittee meeting: March 14, 2013 @ TC Office
Attending: Gary Haugland, Chair; Jonathan Martin, Bob Jonas, David Day, Chris Reyling, Joel Pinsker, Steve Zubarik, Walt Daniels (by phone)
Notes from Jonathan:
Gary: We are using the ATC’s certification rules and maybe they can be altered to better fit our needs.
First Aid rules could potentially be adjusted. We have two goals. Develop the outlines of a chainsaw policy that could meet the many needs of the TC. We could also make recommendations to the board about what we need to enact that policy. The people at this table are the experts, I just hope to create some organization to reach these goals. Do these goals sound right?
David: To clarify, felling of tress are not something that we certify for. We don’t do felling. Only two people within the Trail Conference area have a C certification, therefore are certified in felling. Jack Shuart and Peter Jensen.
Bob: Checked with John Grob, the Forest Service offers courses for Florida Trail Association to certify employees and volunteers. Red Cross first aid with adult CPR is required. FTA provides each student with all the safety gear and chainsaws. (Bob showed the group a copy of the FTA certification card)
Walt: We should check with all our parks to find out what they require.
David: I’ve done exactly that and the NJ DEP folks basically don’t ask. Full-time employees can operate as long as they’ve taken the safety course. Seasonals and part-timers may not. When it comes to volunteers we must abide by the USFS certification.
Bob: Estelle and I just met with Morris County to ask about their sawyers. Tom Carr and Duncan Douglas are considered employees of Morris County. Even though they are our volunteers, they get paid a small stipend to cut. (I assume for insurance purposes)
Jonathan: Morris County approached the Trail Conference to help them certify their employees. NJ requires USFS Certification. NY DEC requires USFS or Game of Logging.
Gary: Do we want to have someone in house obtain certification?
Dave: The liability details could prevent that.
Jonathan: The requirements that need to be met in order to obtain a certification to certify are intense and I’m not sure we have someone in house who is qualified enough to get it.
Bob: Steve Ellis was asking a lot of questions right after Sandy about who is sawing and what their qualifications are. Bob was able to alleviate some of his concerns by emphasizing our restrictions and the “go or no go” concept.
Gary: What about NY?
Chris: Rockland is accepting our certification because it’s the USFS.
Jonathan: NY DEC also accepts Game of Logging certification.
Gary: Before we start bringing in these other professionals lets better understand what our expectations are and how we can be the best partner we can be.
Chris: The other group that’s a part of this equation is ATC. Chris spoke with Bob Sickley and Bob mentioned that Peter is overworked. Maybe ATC getting a 2direction.
Joel: The issue with ATC is that their sawyers are required to be AT Maintainers. Those maintainers are primarily concerned about their mile of trail. We need this to be expanded. There are two types of people that want to be in these saw classes. We represent the people that want to get out there and cut because we enjoy cutting. The other type is the person who doesn’t feel that comfortable with a saw and just wants to learn how to better maintain their section. They need to contribute more.
Bob: We need to better eliminate who takes the class because so many folks don’t give back to the trails.
Jonathan: Since my arrival at the Trail Conference I’ve been screening anyone that inquires about chainsaw certification. People need a recommendation or have existing roles in order to register.
Walt: East Hudson has money to cover the costs and we need one this spring. The experience in the field is much different than the experience sawyers get during training. Three layered stack ‘em ups are the majority of the work that needs to be done.
Bob: Suggested in a letter to Jack and Peter that they have more field time.
Gary: Do we need to recreate the curriculum?
Dave: I was in the initial class in 1998 and it was a 4 day course. That class went from 4 down to 3 down to 2. First day was all about the equipment used and site evaluation. Second day was about safety and assessment. Third day was all cutting and the fourth day was maintenance.
Jonathan: A course for swampers and a course for chainsaw maintenance might be a good idea. Plenty of people contact us about our certification course and are turned away since they are not involved with the organization. We might be able to recruit them by allowing them to participate in these types of courses. It would also be a good way to weed out the “backyard sawyers” by making them prerequisites for those who haven’t received a recommendation.
Dave: Intro to Chainsaw Course. There could also be a 102. Everyone in that course is starting on an even keel. What we currently have is more of a safe operator course. A third course would be “field training”. David and Joel are going out the first weekend in April to do field training with our newly certified sawyers. The Trail Conference could create two of these courses, but would still have to rely on the USFS course to provide certification.
Additional Notes from GH:
Re: first aid and safety
Most first aid courses are not appropriate for us, e.g., CPR is not meaningful so far in the woods and in difficult to reach places. Need to review what our partners require us to have.
Wilderness First Aid certification is a complex process – especially if it is required in addition to the chainsaw courses.
We need to start thinking in terms of “Saw Teams” that include Sawyers and Swampers and the appropriate level of training for each
Re: Volunteers
Our territory is far-flung, long driving distances may discourage volunteers from certain requests. Need to expand our capacity in the territories furthest from our center.
Reporting is currently part of the crew report, but not all sawyers go out as part of formal crews, especially during the emergency situations that arose in the past 2 years. This can provide a summary of 6months of work, but the chainsaw pieces have not been reviewed separately. (Seems like a labor intensive task)
Many operate independently at the request of a Trail Chair or park manager.
Re: Obtaining information from volunteers
It was agreed to send out (by mail since so many do not respond to email requests) a survey to sawyers who have received chainsaw certification through TC courses. We want to know what the payoff has been for providing free training to at least 75 individuals. We will develop a set of questions based on input from the subcommittee.
Subcommittee Subgroups
The charge as laid out by Gary was that small groups of individuals would work together to gather information about specific aspects discussed, learn what other trail groups have in place, and report back to the group at next meeting, possibly earlier for feedback. Due to members travel in April, next meeting in early May.
3 subgroups were identified:
Swampers, safety and first aid training – Bob and Walt
Encouraging volunteering and Reporting strategies – Jonathan and Joel
Improve chainsaw training curriculum –Chris and David (and Steve Z. if he wants)